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Aug 5, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

Excellent perspective on an important topic. Here is a personal perspective on reading books vs. listening to audiobooks:

1. Unlike your experience, I only listen to audiobooks when I am driving. Up until last January when I retired, I had a long commute (all interstate driving), so it helped pass the time. I did have the same concerns about blanking out on the drive, but I found that during the drive itself I was very aware of my surroundings and other drivers, while still listening.

2. With a few exceptions, I only listen to books I have already read particularly the ones that are dramatized with multiple narrators. I am a big Louis L'Amour fan and those books are great listens as well.

3. I am hearing impaired, so I must listen via airpods or my bluetooth hearing aids, so drawing the line at "only while driving" allows for more engagement with others at home. When reading a book, I can hear others, which is hard to do with an audiobook. It's distracting to them and to me.

4. There is active listening and passive listening. Books and songs (with lyrics) are more active listens. I don't seem to be able engage in 2 active skills (like listening to audiobooks and walking) simultaneously, so I alternate: When listening to a book, I do not engage in activity which also requires concentration. I find when I write, I can listen to instrumental music because it is a passive listen, whereas books or music with lyrics are not.

Hope that is what you were looking for.

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I am the same. I can listen to instrumental music when I write on occasion but when there are words, my brain just goes right to them. Two men in my family are huge Louis L'Amour fans -- we have all picked them up from time to time on family visits. What is it about that American cowboy image that remains so compelling?

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L'Amour is not only a writer about the American West (and actually a lot of other things as well), but he is a philosopher. He writes in a way and with such deep, intensity about life, duty, integrity, and many other virtues that are all but lost today. All this in gripping stories. Only other writer I've come across anywhere near that is Zane Gray. Same era and philosophy of life. I highly encourage you to read them first, then listen.

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I'm still resisting audio books, but then I was late to the game for most things tech-related! I think part of my resistance is giving up the sacredness of reading - it demands your whole attention, that you sit still and place the book centre-stage. It's a meditation of sorts, calming and soothing the nervous system. Audio books seem to invite multi-tasking, so I fear something gets lost and we just add more busyness and clutter to our already overstuffed lives....

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I get this. When I read a printed book, held in my hands, I really can't do anything else. I think this is, perhaps, one of the attractions. It is one of the few things I can do and never feel that I am "wasting" time.

There are some tasks that seem to lend themselves better to multi-tasking, I suppose. I'm thinking of house cleaning etc. when I've tried out audio books and music, both. On the other hand, days when I don't turn anything on and just do the work, I find the words and ideas I've been searching for at my desk while trying to write.

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Aug 5, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

I listened to books when I was training for half and whole marathons. Made it much less lonely now I walk just three or 4 miles and prefer NPR or music and I’m retired and love sitting with a book

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Do you remember which books fueled your training the most? Which ones kept you in the best company? Given the strenuous work your body was doing then, it makes sense that you would choose a printed book or something softer for your walks and your relaxation time now.

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Aug 7, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

I loved to listen to mysteries while I trained. There was always a beginning , middle and end that was conclusive. So much fun

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Aug 5, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

Very interesting newsletter and great interview too! I’m an avid reader and walker who has tried over and over to listen to books, but it just doesn’t appeal to me at all. Sometimes when I’ve tried, the voice of the reader (not Bernadette) is just not what I imagine in my head so I end up with the written word as usual! Books are sacred to me and there is no greater feeling than finishing a book, staring at it and contemplating all that it meant in my personal experience. That said, it’s wonderful that there are different options to suit a variety of situations. I am in the midst of reading Such Kindness By Andre Dubus III.....amazing novel!

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Books are sacred to me too. Even the silly ones or terrible ones. I think this is why I'm drawn to reading them in print first and then experimenting with audiobooks. I want to add to the experience, not take away from what is important to me about reading. Thanks for chiming in. I suspect you know Bernadette fairly well? :)

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Aug 6, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

yes Maureen is one of my four sisters, Elizabeth! And probably reads more than all of her four sisters combined, even though there's quite a lot of avid readers in our family!

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I haven't listened to an audiobook for quite a while. I used to listen to books while I painted (walls when redecorating), and on long driving trips, neither of which I do now. Sometimes I read aloud to myself in accents for my own amusement. I hired actors to narrate my first three books, and I read my own poetry collection "Desire Returns for a Visit," which was a learning experience for sure. But I always prefer holding the actual book in my hands for reading. I like to flip back and re-read parts, and this is impossible on audiobooks. I think we should read however we prefer, and I love that books are available in all the forms. Right now, I'm reading (paperback, from the library) "Lessons in Chemistry," and enjoying it very much.

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Ahhh -- "Lessons in Chemistry" is on my list but, like Demon Copperhead, my friends fall into two camps when it comes to the book: they love it or they read it in spite of not liking it very much. I have yet to read either one so I am happily in that zone full of possibility.

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Such perfect timing! A week ago, I finished recording my audiobook at a sound studio in Seattle and just this morning I approved the final files. What an experience.

A former actress, I figured it would be as easy as reading aloud to Russel, something I've done often over the 34 years we've been married. Suffice to say, I will never be quite so judgmental about audiobook narrators again.

If anyone wants to read more about all of that, click on my pic to read my Substack, Honeymoon at Sea.

Thanks for another great post, Betsy, and here are my top audiobooks to try. Number one is Three Junes by Julia Glass, read by a brilliant narrator whose Scottish accent is completely addictive. There's Scotland, Greece, and NYC in the 1980s, plus there are dogs, lots of dogs.

For Sci-fi fans there's Agent to the Stars, by John Scalzi, the least science fictiony book ever. It's almost magical realism and so very funny. The narrator is Will Wheaton of Star Trek TNG fame. He's absolutely amazing at personifying different characters of very different types, from a Hollywood agent to a starlet to an alien and even a dog. I guess there's a pattern here.

The Secret Life of Bees is so so good and another great narrator does all the warm southern voices that poured into my ears like honey. No dogs in this but it has everything else you need.

All of the above are older books but I have listened to them all multiple times. I can't say why. I also highly recommend Amor Towles A Gentleman in Moscow. Not for your first read though, as it is slow moving, and the fine narration is of the more invisible sort, if that makes sense.

Thanks again. Always good "hearing" from you and the rest of our lively Spark Community!

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I love reading aloud to others, something that I started doing when my brother and I went across the country together and got stranded multiple times along the way out and back. We read Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" to each other and three other Heinlein books because we were sharing the books and it was a way to keep each other on the same page so to speak. We both remember the books, and that time, with wistfulness and a desire to go back to the book and to the kids we were then.

Thanks for all these wonderful recommendations!!!

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My brothers and I did some reading aloud but it was a lot of short pieces, poems and such, but yes, we still remember that time and some of the pieces too. I remember "The Walrus and the Carpenter" better than what I ate for breakfast yesterday!

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Aug 5, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

One more comment on audio books. Not every book is a good audio. I still read paper books, especially if it's one that I want to study, or really savor the language. I often read with a pencil in my hand to underline favorite passages. And, yes, I like holding a book and focusing on the words. Also, I always listen to the sample of the audio before I select it to make sure it's a reader/voice that I want to keep listening to. Some readers enhance the experience, others detract from it. Choose wisely!

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Thanks, Mary. I have listened to lots of samples from various audiobooks and, like you, can tell right away if the voice will enhance the experience. One thing I found fascinating: in the Best Mystery & Suspense 2021 collection, each story was read by a different narrator and I could sample each of them. I owned the book already but I realized how wonderful it was to have such a range of voices and stories in one book.

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Aug 5, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

I started listening to audio books when I took a walk. I also listen while driving or doing mundane chores. If I’m really into it, I put it on while knitting, drawing, or doing puzzles. I also enjoy them for the entertainment value. So many excellent voice actors narrate the books. Start with a celebrity, if that helps you. Tom Hanks read Anne Patchett’s “The Dutch House,” and that’s one of my favorites. I liked it so much, I listened to it twice. If you need more suggestions, let me know. I’m a fan of “reading by ear.”

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Here's a link to an interview with Ann Patchett in which she discusses the people and feelings leading to "These Precious Days" : https://www.npr.org/2021/11/23/1058624397/ann-patchett-on-the-friendship-that-came-from-quarantining-with-tom-hanks-assist

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I have heard from others that Hanks' reading of "The Dutch House" is great. I read Ann Patchett's essay "These Precious Days" , a lovely piece about a woman she befriended at a critical point in their lives. The woman happened to be Hanks' personal assistant. And so one thing led to another and his voice wound up in the book. I realize I haven't even listened to the sample yet! I'll do that. As it happens I did not LOVE "The Dutch House" but liked it a lot. Perhaps re-reading by listening will make it into a new experience.

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I completely understand your difficulty listening to full audiobooks if you don't listen while on walks. That was how I got all of my audiobook reading done when I was in an audiobook phase (and which inspired this piece about audiobook reading vs. book-book reading: https://janefriedman.com/audiobook-shame/). But I wasn't walking anywhere near as beautiful as where you walk with your puppy. (I also listened while house cleaning or doing some other mindless thing (yard work), but if you don't like headphones, that's another audiobook challenge.)

One of the hardest things for me with audiobooks, and this is mentioned at the link above, was coming across a narrator whose reading was not pleasing in one way or another. I didn't manage to get through much of Stephen King's reading of his own work, and one narrator read with such a bored-sounding voice that I got bored listening, and she was reading an author whose books are pretty universally regarded as NOT boring.

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I loved your essay! I loved how the landscape around you is now marked by passages in the books you read. You've captured beautifully the whole debate about what counts as true reading.

You are right about my surroundings but I have to confess, that they are not the only reason I don't listen to podcasts, books, or anything when I walk. The dogs are quiet for hours at a stretch when I am working and so I try to make the walks our time together. After being inside, trying to wrestle with words, I want to engage with them in whatever way makes sense (to them if not to me). Also, lately, I've been thinking a lot about doing one thing at a time a subject, Oliver Burkeman returned to recently here: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jan/08/want-to-improve-focus-and-productivity-do-one-thing-at-a-time

and here, https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/29/opinion/do-one-thing-at-a-time-management.html.

That said, I really see the benefit of combining a good book while scrubbing , dusting, making beds, etc. Listening to audiobooks or stories in Italian is also really helpful to me in my ongoing quest to master the language. It's very slow going but fun.

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Aug 18, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

I read books in paper, ebooks, and audiobooks. In audiobooks I prefer memoirs or rereads of books I have read in print before (I don’t read the memoirs first). I do audiobooks while driving, while cleaning, exercising, and occasionally when just sitting and listening. I have chronic illnesses involving lots of pain and depression/ anxiety/ ptsd/ cptsd and sometimes I can’t concentrate enough to read in print but audiobooks take me out of my world in a good way. My favorite audiobooks lately have been Trevor Noah’s “Born a Crime”, “Father Joe” by Tony Hendra, “Finding Me” by Viola Davis, “Hijab Butch Blues” by Lamya H, , J. D. Robb’s In Death series and Ilona Andrews Hidden Legacy series or her Innkeeper Chronicles series. I can see why Tara Westover’s Educated could be someone’s favorite audiobook but if you have any similar issues in your background, read it, don’t listen to it. Listening is too immersive. I had to pull the car over; I was shaking. It’s easier to put a book down and walk away for a bit.

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Thanks for this, Jo. I've read Noah's book and have heard that Viola Davis' memoir and "Hijab Butch Blues" are amazing. I like that you've figured out what you need to do to absorb a particular kind of book. I'll keep your advice in mind if I listen to "Educated."

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Aug 15, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

I like to go on long walks without my phone. It helps me clear my mind and figure out whatever I’m working on. I also don’t need more tech in my life. I just enjoy holding a physical book and being in that zone where I’m immersed in the book and imagining all that is happening in it. I get too distracted with audiobooks. I just don’t see what benefit audiobooks would bring to my life, specifically, but I’m all for others enjoying them!

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I am a book-in-hand reader to this day. I will admit to listening thus far to one audiobook. And perhaps shame on me, because there is a purpose to hear a book read. Thank you for this encouragement for both.

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Aug 7, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

I had an odd experience recently when listening to a short story. A friend had sent me a link to the audio version. I normally read a story three times but this time I "read" it four times, the fourth being the audio version. My own reading of the story persuaded me that the story had a melancholy, serious tone and that certain events were particularly consequential. I came away with several thoughts about the story. When I listened to the audio version, it was as if I were hearing an entirely different story. The reader placed emphasis on words and phrases I had not emphasized. And she read quickly, with an upbeat tone. Over all, events in the story had less gravitas. I remember speaking afterward to my friend, saying that the author would have been distressed with the reader's interpretation. My friend said, "Rae, the author was the one reading the story." Was I surprised! I don't know what to make of my experience, other than to concede that my own take on things often seems at odds with the world.

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Well they say that once a writer puts a story or book out into the world,it ceases to be entirely theirs and becomes whatever it becomes in the hands / eye/ears of the reader. This was a really interesting example of that!

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I'm firmly in the Demon camp, and I have finished Lessons yet, but am enjoying it immensely. I wonder if there are people who love one but hate the other?

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Aug 6, 2023Liked by Elizabeth Marro

thank you for the wonderful interview, Betsy! very much enjoyed the essay and discourse in these comments as well. XOXO

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Listening to audiobooks is definitely a muscle that needs training. I’ve found that nonfiction works better for me -- it’s my favorite way to read science or history books -- because if my thoughts do wander, I didn’t miss any important plot points. Usually. To me, they’re just another way to get a book into my brain while doing chores or driving!

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I like the idea that this is a muscle that needs training. I find it interesting that nonfiction works better for you. I think that, for me, this would depend on the subject. I am thinking of combining the audio version of "An Immense World" with the written version to compare. I love the author's voice in the sample and found myself completely and thoroughly engaged.

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It definitely depends on the writing style, too. My brain can’t comprehend flowery writing in audio form!

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